Showing posts with label Gravel Grovel. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Gravel Grovel. Show all posts

Monday, December 2, 2019

2019 Gravel Grovel Swim

http://www.dinoseries.com/

If you have read my previous post about Gravel Grovel you would probably be wondering how much gears had helped me for this year. Well, you will have to check back next year and see if you have any more luck knowing that answer than I do. As much as I would really like to give this race a good run with a geared bike, this was not the year. First of all to give it really a good run I would have to be riding stronger than I was this year. I didn't get the training done leading up to the race like I would have liked and was not as strong as I should have been. Also as the race was getting closer and I was keeping my eye on the weather, it was looking like a very high chance of bad weather. I figured I needed to just take the bike that can handle the worst weather out of all the bikes and changed to the SS class.


Tuesday, November 19, 2019

Is it that time already


It is getting the time of year that I normally start doing a lot more gravel rides. I usually get some Gravel Grovel recon rides in and start wondering what kind of finishing time I can get. This may be the first year in a very long time that I have not rode any of those areas recently. This year is full of a lot of unusual things. Before I get in to all of that, I need to start a few weeks farther back.

After the BT Epic I was pretty run down and had some aches from the hard effort. I didn't have the motivation to get out as much I needed. I also ended up doing something I didn't think I would do, I bought a full suspension geared bike. I was not expecting to do that at all, but this year after PMBAR I could not help from wondering how that kind of bike would be a lot more enjoyable for that area. Some things ended up happening so that all the stars aligned and there I was, an owner of another new bike.

The new toy

I ended up taking ownership a few days before the O'bannon Woods Adventure Ride. I figured if we were going to ride the AHT, then why not take my new ride and see what it was all about. I did get a couple minutes on it in the yard to get some things adjusted, but didn't really spend much time on it. I have never been to this event, but I have been to the area a little and heard that the event was a good time. I got there a little late on Friday and could only check out a little section of trail. Saturday the event ride was around the park and stuff. The group I was with wanted to check out the AHT. It didn't take me very long to remember how rocky this trail could be and how many hike a bike sections there were. The new bike was riding pretty good, but I was having an issue with my back brake and basically ended up riding most of the day with only a front break. It sure made some of the sections pretty interesting.


It turns out that the brake pads were completely worn out. I tried to put new pads in, but I could not get the pressure to build and make the brakes work. So much for a nice new bike. Someone was nice enough to loan me his bike for Sunday's ride. Saturday's ride kicked all of our butts, but it seemed like everyone wanted to go back and give the AHT another go, but this time add a little more of the sections we didn't' ride. My loaner bike was a hard tail SS. Not anything I wouldn't have been on anyway if I didn't buy the FS bike. I was still worn out and the trail was even harder than the day before, but I didn't do too bad on the SS. I didn't climb a couple hills that I would have with my eagle and I was missing the FS on some of the rocky downhills, but it was still a great day.

Thanks Blake!!

So, after the event I went back home and tried to get the brakes to work. I tried a lot of different things, but never could get them to work very well. The next weekend I had planned on heading up to the Story area to get a good gravel ride in, but with the weather being good enough for trail riding and not getting much interest in joining me, I figured I would head back to O'Bannon and get another good trail ride in while it was good. I ended up stealing a caliper from my Spot to get it back up and rolling. I went to do some of the AHT again, but I skipped some of the harder sections. I will say that with both brakes working, this bike was a lot of fun. Eagle also was pretty crazy at what I could climb. It was another big, fun day.



Now this leaves me sitting in the another strange position for the year. I no longer had a working gravel SS that I normally ride for Gravel Grovel. This had me thinking about all the times I would ride my Speedster gravel bike and wonder what kind of time I could get at GG on it. But, I just didn't feel right not riding the SS. I had been contemplating this for the last month or so, but always ended up telling myself to just ride the SS. With this bike now only having 1 working brake, I figured I might as well see what the whole geared thing is all about and if I can get a good time on it. I know there are several gravel road sections that are not really the greatest on a SS and a couple of the climbs really hurt too. Now I am signed up in a different class than normal, riding a different kind of bike than normal and not even staying in the cabins like I usually do. I am not sure what I think of all that. I can only hope that no matter what bike I actually end up riding, it is a good day and I can have a fun time. I am sure that no matter how I ride, there will be at least some good times had. Guess we will see soon.


Wednesday, December 19, 2018

Gravel Grovel Slop Fest 2018

After last years record time and the fact that for most of the year I was riding stronger than I can ever remember, I had some high hopes for putting in a really good ride this year. But, I did a good job of making sure that didn't happen. The last 3 months leading up to the race it seemed like I had a lot of conflicts and issues that kept me from getting a lot of rides in. My monthly mileage for September was an all time low. I did a little better in October, but still way lower than normal. November was also busy, but I did my best to try and get my legs to snap out of it and let me finish the year strong.

The last couple rides leading up to the race didn't really make me feel any better. I was still riding the climbs, but I didn't have any pop. I had a bigger gear on the Spot than last year with the thoughts of going faster. With my weaker state of riding I made a last minute decision to change the gearing back to what I had ran the last couple years. This was a very good decision for my legs. I figured if I am going to have a bad year, why cause myself any more unneeded pain.


I got there early enough on Friday to get checked in to my cabin and all settled in. After Bushong got there we went for a little ride to loosen the legs up. We just did the small loop from the start area. This also let us see how some of the roads were looking. The legs were not feeling too bad, but still not where I had hoped they would be.

Thursday, November 30, 2017

Gravel Grovel 2017


I can't remember how many years ago that the Gravel Grovel was started, but I sure am happy that I found it. A lot has changed over the years. Where the race starts and finishes, how bad the weather conditions are, what bikes I have used and how bad the pain was. I have had a few years that would make a lot of people not want to come back, but for some reason I find myself lined up on the starting line every year just hoping to do better than some previous years.

Saturday, October 29, 2016

Gravel Grovel 2016 - Hindenburg 2.0

This is basically how my Gravel Grovel went.

So, what was lining up as having the most potential to my best Gravel Grovel to date ended up a little less than optimal. It sounded like it should have been awesome, then it caught fire and crashed to the ground. That maybe a little excessive in the description, but that is completely how I feel. Lets go back a few weeks. I was riding as strong as I ever had and the first two scouting rides I was riding strong. I still was trying to figure out how to be faster on race day, but I was putting in some of my quickest Strava segments to date. I was not really going for segments, but it does make me feel better when my times end up being better than previous trips. Little did I know that in a few weeks I would have been happy to just be able to ride like that.

Somewhere after the second scouting ride my legs became weak at climbing. We did a full loop ride and I didn't do that bad, but did not climb very fast at all. Even with climbing slow, not eating enough, taking it easy in some sections and wearing down badly toward the end, I still did the ride in just over 5 hours and that included the trip to and from the Story Inn. If I could just get my climbing legs to come back a little, I would be set up for a 4.5 hour ride if the weather cooperates. The did cooperate! It always could have been better, but even with the rain that came in the week before it was one of the driest conditions that I have done and ready to be fast. There were only a few deeper water sections and combs was not what I would call muddy.



The cabin was booked full and friends were in the next cabin over. Everyone trickled in Friday night at different times. It was fun hanging out and catching up. This part is what makes racing so much more than just riding a bike. Friday night had a lot of potential to go bad, but didn't. I really was not hungry most of the night and never ate what I took for dinner. I did have a couple little things, but not a lot. I was not sure why, but I was just not very hungry. I actually got to bed fairly early compared some some years.

I woke up at 3 am with some terrible stomach cramps and cold sweats. Awesome!! I continued this on and off for the rest of the night. I did not want to get up when everyone started moving. Eventually I did start moving around. There was plenty of time before the race started and I hoped I would start to feel better. Either way my legs felt like I just ran a 5k and I was beat up from all the cramping. I made several trips to the bathroom hoping to remidy some of the issues, but no luck. I made an awesome breakfast, but could only get a few bites down, lots of dissapoints to be had. I was doing everything I could to get ready for a good race, but was not succeeding.

Eventually I made my way over to the start line. I didn't really warm up like I would have wanted too, but the way the morning was going I figured it really didn't matter. Soon enough we were given some instructions and off we went. I was surrounded by some good company and doing what I could. The first section was going better than I figured and hung out with several people that I wanted to be around. I was trying to just go the best I could with out digging too deep until I got going. The first big climb, the paved road in the middle of nowhere hurt, but I felt like I had climbed it slower in the past.


The next section had some good parts and bad parts. At times my stomach was cramping badly and I could not ride very hard. Other times I felt like I was not too far off the pace. I did still see some of the people I wanted to ride with not too far away, but some were gone already. I felt like I did well on Combs road and climbed the hill. At the top was several people there to offer me a beer hand up. Originally I was not planning on taking this one as it was pretty early. I was not feeling too good and the climb did a number on me. I just rolled over the top and kept going.

The down hill on Combs almost got me once or twice, but I managed to keep it up right. The Blue Creek road section was not that great for me. I was wearing down and still not feeling very good. I climbed the road climb, but I am positive it was not at record pace. Once I got out of that section and hit the gravel road I was really starting to hurt. I remember taking my time and almost stopping to eat something. I wanted to get it in me before I hit Nebo, but I don't think it was early enough to really matter.


Most of Nebo is a blur. I normally remember a lot about my race, but just can't picture most of this section. I know I had the only place I needed to walk in this section. It was one of the steep/technical climbs and the guy in front of me didn't make it and I had no place to go. I also remember the up and over log was not the same on the back side. I thought I going down, but really glad I didn't. The rest of this section was uneventful or at least nothing big enough for me to remember. I was still not climbing well, but I was riding fast enough to keep people from catching me.

From here on out I was in another world. I was just turning pedals over and trying to keep moving. I was trying to eat and drink as often as I could, but my stomach was still cramping on and off and I was having trouble keeping down everything I ate. I figured I was finally going to actually have my first puke on the bike. I have had several that have been very close, but I am not one for puking so I always manage to keep it down. Today was not so easy.

Before I started up Baldy I saw my riding buddy Brian coming down the other side. He waved and went on. I was really wishing I was over there and not getting ready to climb this hill. I just kept moving and hoping the top was just around the next corner. Eventually it was, but there were a lot more corners than I wanted. I pulled up to the rest stop to top off my water bottle. This was my planned stop for water. I tried to eat a little more while I was there. I did see several people roll up that I know. They wanted me to jump on their train, but I knew I would not be able to hang on. I took off before they did because I knew they would catch me. Shortly after hitting the bottom and making the left they went by and I never saw them again.

That next big hill is just horrible. I don't know if it is because it is so close after climbing Baldy or if it really would not matter when you do it, I am sure it will always hurt no matter what. Pedals kept turning and miles kept rolling on. I would see some people then I wouldn't. I was a little shocked that I was holding off a lot of the people I did see. They would come up on me and the next thing I know I was pulling away or they would stop to re-group. This made me feel a little better, but I still knew I was not moving as fast I would like.

More trail and gravel climbs. One after another followed by some screaming descents that I was no way near strong enough mentally to be going as fast as I was, but I just kept going. I had a few sections that I felt a little better and others that really sucked. When I left trail 20 I just blew past the last rest stop. I was very ready to get back home. After the big climb after the last rest stop is normally a good section to put in some better speeds. This year was not the case. I found myself going pretty slow at times and had to ask myself why? I really didn't know. I was just kind of day dreaming and would almost stop pedaling. As soon as I woke up, I would get back in to turning pedals over.

Eventually I did making it down the long down hill section and could see where the bridge was to the right. I could not have been happier to be this close. I crossed the bridge as smooth as I could. I kept looking back hoping I didn't see anyone gaining on me. I knew that I had nothing to hold them off and really didn't want to get passed this late in the race. When I hit the last creek crossing I was caught a little off guard on how deep the creek was. I guess I should have checked that out in the morning. I had to dismount and work my way around the left side a little to find a good place to get back on. I rode the rest of the way across and up the hill to the finish line.

Even though I was very happy to be finally finished, this was a little different than a lot of big races. Normally the emotions rush in and I am on a race high or sometimes at the verge of breaking down in tears. This was completely uneventful. I rolled across the finish line, not even sure if someone took note. I rolled back toward the cabin completely shelled and in another world. I tried to gather myself well enough to changed and head over to eat. I was late enough that by the time I got over there just about everyone else that I figured I would eat with were already done and some gone. The awards were over and the place was pretty empty. I ate my plate of food and headed back toward the cabin.
There were people hanging out there and I started to feel a little better by then. I at least knew what I was doing. Had a couple beers and hung out for the rest of the night. We had a fire and lot of laughs. It would have only been better if the occasional cramping would have stopped and I could have had a few more beers. Maybe even ate a little more because I know I didn't have near enough for the day's activity.

All things considering I really should not be too upset with myself. I finished in a time of 5:20 and I ended up 136th overall out of over 200 riders and 47th in the MTB class. The impressive thing I did, even with all of my issues, I only stopped for 6 minutes during the whole race. Those numbers are really not that bad as to all the other years that I have done this. The biggest disappointment is that I am coming off of a great finish time last year in some really tough conditions. I have worked really hard this year to be in even better condition and it ended up not really making a difference. I was basically an hour longer than my goal time. So, when you look at that number, it does not sound very good.

When the legs fell apart the weeks leading up to the race I figured the 4:30 time would be hard to get, but I figured 5 hours should not be an issue. The ride I did Friday to loosen up the legs felt good and I had a little hope that the legs were going to show up and treat me well. That really didn't happen. I know I said earlier that barring any major issues I should be able to do 5 hours and I guess I did have a major issue. I had several people tell me they would not have even raced. I guess I still had hope that I would come around. In hindsight if I would have stopped for that beer on the top of Combs I probably would have been happier. I am sure I would have just decided to call it quits and ride with the heckle crew, but I am not one that likes to DNF. I had too many of them in the past when I shouldn't have and now I go above and beyond to not quit. The one thing that I do know for sure is that when times are hard I seem to be able to ride in complete misery for way longer than I should be able to. I guess I have that going for me if that really makes a difference at the end of the day.

I want to thank everyone who helped me get to the point that I thought I was going to have a great race. All the guys who put in miles and miles on the bike even when I was holding them up. To Brian and his staff at DINO for keeping this race going. All the volunteers that helped out. I may not have used much of the sag stops, but it was really good that you were there for those that needed it. I need to especially thank Brian, Eric, Jeff and Jason. With out them I would have been no better off than any other year. I just really hate to have wasted it on having bad stomach issues. At least the time hanging out together and riding together are not lost. Those are the reasons I have the urge to get on the bike to begin with. With out all of you I would talk myself out of doing so many rides. I can only hope that I will show up even stronger next year. Maybe I will do it SS again....
Click here to see my Strava info

Tuesday, January 5, 2016

Gravel Grovel 2015

gg

After yesterday I no longer have to say that my fastest times for the Gravel Grovel were done on a SS. After trying for the last few years to finish in less than 5 hours, I finally succeeded this year finishing in 4:53. I know that last week I figured out that I actually did finish under the 5 hour mark in 2010, but I am still no sure how that could have happened. I was on my SS and I didn't think I was very fast back then, but one thing with a SS is that you are forced to be consistent with your speed so hard telling.

I worked pretty hard this year to be in the best condition I have been in awhile to improve my chances for a good finish time. I was feeling pretty good about it a few months ago, but as the time was getting closer I was not so sure anymore. The two scouting trips I made up there did not help me feel better about the condition of my legs. I rode well both times, but I just was not climbing very fast either time and there are plenty climbing sections that can make a big difference. Even the Wednesday night ride this week the legs were feeling heavy and I was struggling climbing. Maybe I was just expecting too much, but I still felt like I was not climbing very fast and the legs were hurting.

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The weather leading up to the race was not very favorable. It rained most of the day Friday and as far as I could tell, most of the day Saturday too. It was supposed to be a high of 47 degrees, so I figured it would be cold too. I knew the trail sections would be interesting to say the least. There were probably going to be some road sections that could be just as bad.

Getting ready that morning it felt warmer than I expected. This made it very hard to decide what to wear. It was going to be muddy and wet for sure, but not sure how cold it really will be. The parking lot was pretty soft and the rain was pretty steady. The conditions were not very good for me to put in a good time, but I was in for the ride no matter what happened.

Soon enough I found myself at the starting line and after a few announcements we were off. It didn't take long before the water was spraying all over the place. The pace did not seem too fast, but I know I tend to go a little faster than I should at the start. I kept moving around trying to find wheels to follow with out putting in too much effort. I found myself being surrounded by some people that I should not be trying to keep up with. I found some other wheels to ride with and took a little off of the pace. It was going to be a long day and no need to blow up before the first climb.

The paved climb in the middle of no where came up soon enough. I actually didn't do to bad on it and Strava says it was a PR for that section. The next several miles I found myself riding around the same few riders. They would get me on the climbs and I would bomb past them on the down hills. Soon we were heading in to Combs road. After the last ride there, I knew this section would be tough. There were several riders with bike issues in this section.

I was not riding too bad in this section. I was riding a lot of parts that people were having issues with. The creek crossings were deep and plenty of mud to go around. I had a few gears that started to grind pretty good when I was using them. I just tried to pick one that was not making noise and went that speed because I didn't need to rip the rear derailleur off that early in the race. I was very thankful that the easiest gear in the back was one of the few that were working. I felt like I could have gone faster in a few spots, but I didn't want to risk using those gears in that kind of situation. I made it up to the last little pitch on the climb and the chain was really making some noise. I didn't want to, but I decided that I should walk the last section and save my bike. The down hill section was quite interesting as my brakes were not working all that well. Just enough to slow me down if I really needed it.

In all I actually thought that Combs road would have been even worse. Don't get me wrong, it was not that great, but I am pretty sure I have seen it in worse conditions. The next section of road started off pretty good, but right after the bridge crossing it got a lot softer and more standing water. I just tried to pick good lines and keep the pace moving with out crashing or breaking the bike. I was not doing too bad on the climb right up to a spot that the back wheel spun out on a rock or something. I walked a little bit and then hopped back on. I did not climb it anywhere close to the speed that I could have, but I just had to do what I could. The next section to the road was spend crossing back and forth on the trail just trying to take the best lines.

The road section moved along pretty good. It was nice to have one of the People's Brewing guys to ride with. We chatted a little and took some turns drafting off each other. It was nice riding on the road, but it would not last long. I started up the Nebo Ridge climb just trying to pick a line that I could keep traction. I didn't do too bad, but did spin out on one part. Other than that I rode everything and made pretty good time considering everything. I even cruised down the down hills better than before. Maybe because the brakes were not really working anymore. I did have a few times that I thought I might go down, but thankfully I never did.

The next road section I just tried to put it in a big gear and cruise with out using too much energy to hold that speed. The legs tend to feel a little better after I can spin them out for a little bit. I knew what was coming up ahead and needed all the hills I could find. I tried to take in some food and water so I had all the energy needed to climb the next few hills. Mt. Baldy hurt pretty bad. I kept moving, but no where near my fastest time. I passed the rest stop at the top and prepared to bomb down the hill. I knew this was a place I could let it all hang out and gain some time.

The next hill didn't hurt as bad as Mt. Baldy, but I was still moving way to slow. Somewhere in this section I looked at how many miles I had in and how much time I had left to be able to finish in under 5 hours. Apparently my math was not the best, but I figured that there would be no way to be able to meet my goal. I just figured I would keep riding and get back as soon as I could.

I was hurting pretty good for the next several miles. I think the self realization that I was not going to reach my goal and the fact that it had been a while since I could feel my feet started some bad thoughts. At one point I even thought of a short cut to get me back to the car. After trail 21 I just kept moving. Charles was there and cheered me on. That was very uplifting and helped me get past this next loop. Near the top of the hill I thought that I could take the left and the car would be not too far away. Then I figured if I took the energy to climb this silly hill, I better not quit and head back. I did lose traction and had to walk the last few feet of the climb. After I started going again I glanced back and thought I saw the green jacket of my team mate Alex.

I figured he would soon catch me on this next section. He has been a lot stronger than me and I figured he would have caught me long before now. I didn't see anyone for a while and figured maybe I was just seeing things. I went a little too fast on the down hill section back to where trail 21 comes out, but thankfully I could keep the bike upright and rolling good. I didn't waste any time at the intersection and rolled on by. At this point not only could I not feel my feet, I could not feel my hands. Those fast down hill sections were good for getting back sooner, but they were also a heck of a lot colder than the climbs.

I struggled on the trail 12 section. There are a lot of dips and things that were hard for me to ride. I had to walk a few more sections and the other sections that I was riding was pretty sketchy. I thought I heard a few people behind me so I just kept trying to move the best I could. Toward the end of this section Alex did catch me. He yelled at me to give me a hard time. I was pretty out of it at that point and was just going to move over for him and almost wrecked. I know that is not what he was trying to do, but that is what almost happened.

I followed him to the end of the trail section. I was feeling pretty bad at that point and before I got out of the woods I figured I might as well go ahead and answer natures call. I needed to go for quite a while at that point and figured why not stop since I was not going to hit the 5 hour mark. I have never gone in my kit as I rode, but with the amount of rain and mud this was the day that I really thought about it. Alex was eating some Doritos when I came up and then he proceeded to feed me a few hand fulls so he would not eat them all and I emptied the bag.

We took off both hurting pretty bad. That next climb really hurt. I was so ready for the next turn and then the one after that. The church could not have came too soon. I tried to ride with Alex for his section, but we would yo-yo back and forth depending if we were climbing or descending. We hit a big hill and I pulled away from him. I tried to wait on him a few times, but I was just really ready to be done and the pedals were just turning what ever pace they wanted to go. Shortly after that I noticed a rider up ahead. That helped me find a little more motivation to reel him in. I did just that and promptly dropped him. I just kept moving as fast and smooth as I could. I was starting to feel a little better. It must have been those Doritos that gave me that extra little power.

I was in my big ring and rolling pretty good. I was very happy when I saw the church and took that corner. I guess I could really smell the finish line there and the legs were working really good. I have no idea how fast I was moving since my computer had been covered by mud since mile 6. There was another two more riders that I reeled in and passed in this section. Near the end the legs were screaming, but I knew the end was near and kept pushing. I thought I could hear one of those riders coming up behind me, but it turns out that it was probably just my imagination.



I was so relieved when I could see the horse camp through the trees. Then I remembered that I still needed to cross one more creek. I tried to pick a good line and just went for it. I knew it was deep and was not good for my bike, but after what I just put it through it could not be that much worse for it. It felt like the water was up to my knees as I rolled in the middle. I almost messed up on the other side as I saw a big rock under the water and barely negotiated around it and climbed the last hill to cross the finish.

I was drained and just leaned on my bars resting. I figured Alex should have been right behind me. After waiting a minute I asked one of the photographers what time it was. He said 5 till 3. It took a minute for that to sink in and then I was like wait...umm...what?? If we started right at 10, then 3 o'clock would be the 5 hour mark. This means that I finished in under 5 hours. I was not sure what to think at that point. I could not have been happier at that moment. I could not wait any longer as I could not feel most of my body and headed back to the cabin. It was so awesome to have the whole People's brewing group hanging out there waiting for me and cheering as I rolled up. I never expected that and was one of the best moments of the weekend. Even when other people were staying in the cabin with me, no one hung out waiting for me.

I cleaned myself up and changed clothes. They headed over to the dining hall to eat and pick up there first and second place awards for the single speed class. Then I made it in to the hall and picked up my plate of food and did not even sit down and my name was called out for a door prize.

I ended up finishing with 4:53 and in 41st place overall. 12th place in the masters class. Not too bad with there being 120 finishers and over 150 people signed up. This is by far the highest finish that I have ever had. Most years I didn't finish under the top 100 overall. Granted the turn out was down some because of the weather, but I am still pretty happy with it. It is pretty hard to believe that I could actually finish under my goal with the conditions that we had to ride in. It makes me wonder just how fast I could have finished it if was on the dry side. It leads me to believe that with a little more work I could finish somewhere near that 4:30 range. Now I guess I have something to shoot for next year. I will have to decide what bike I plan on riding. I know there are sections that I can ride faster on my mtb, but not sure if I can maintain the speed on the sections that my cross bike excels. I do know that my hands hurt really bad today from trying to hold on to those bars. I am sure my hands would not hurt as bad if I was holding on to a flat bar. I guess I have 363 days to figure that out.

I would like to thank Brian and the team at Dino for putting this event on. I think they did a great job this year and if Sub 9 was not going to be there, I am very glad that they decided to keep this thing moving. I also want to thank Phil @ Adventures Recreation, with out them I would not have had the gear to keep me as warm and comfortable as I was and a bike that was not flawless, but held on in some crazy conditions to get me to the finish line. I need to thank Honey Stinger and Tailwind Nutrition for helping me keep my body fueled up and hydrated. I also need to thank Stan's No Tubes for some awesome wheels and tubeless fluid. There were several sections out there that I thought I destroyed a wheel or would have at least had a flat. Neither of those things happened and I had no reason to stop.